Safe Words & Sinners

What happens when a rugby surprise pregnancy rom-com collides with a lapsed Catholic love story? Season 3 Episode 5 of Romance on the Rocks dives headfirst into two contemporary romances that blend real-world complexity with serious heat.

Nicole Danielle reviews Every Version of You by Sloan Spencer, a sports romance in the Rugby Lovers series that delivers friends to lovers, surprise pregnancy and “kinky cute” spice. Angie, a therapist who helped raise her siblings after losing her mother, finds herself unexpectedly pregnant after a tequila-fueled night with her lifelong bestie Rafael, a CFO and weekend rugby player. What follows is co-parenting with boundaries, negotiated kink, therapy normalized on the page and a cat named Razzle Dazzle stealing scenes. Beneath the playful safe words and woods-chase shenanigans is a story about compromise without self-erasure and the kind of partner care that looks like snacks on the nightstand and pillow delivery even after a fight.

Meghan Leigh unpacks Sinner by Sierra Simone, a theologically layered romance originally published in 2018. Sean Bell is a real estate closer grappling with religious trauma while caring for his mother through cancer. Zenobia “Zenny” Iverson is a novice nun encouraged to experience the world before taking her final vows. When a business deal threatens the Catholic nonprofit where Zenny serves, Sean steps in to repair the damage and instead finds himself navigating grief, faith and desire in equal measure. The intimacy is open door yet thoughtful, centering consent, aftercare and emotional responsibility. The novel explores theology and what it truly means to earn someone’s trust.

Both books land at habanero on our Spicy Scoville Scale. The heat is real but so are the conversations about boundaries, belief systems and adult partnership. From Spotify playlists and rugby terminology to religious doubt and character growth, this episode celebrates romance that respects both brain and body.

If you love sports romance, surprise pregnancy tropes, religious themes in fiction and open-door intimacy with emotional depth, this episode is for you. Hit play, subscribe and let us know which book made you blush harder.

Nicole's Book & Beverage:  Every Version of You by Sloan Spencer with Dolly Parton's Dirt Road Martini

Meghan's Book & Beverage:  Sinner by Sierra Simone with Mulled Wine

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Transcript

Nicole:

Well, hello.  I'm Nicole Danielle. 

Meghan:

And I'm Meghan Leight. And this is Romance on the Rocks, where two bookish biddies imbibe, talk about the romance novels they're reading, which right now we're doing pick a number, so it's kind of like picking out of a hat. And well, for us it's martini glasses. 

Nicole:

It's all luck of the draw. 

Meghan:

Yeah. So, what did we draw this time around, Nicole?

Nicole:

This time around, I drew “Every version of you” by Sloan Spencer. And what did you draw, Meghan? 

Meghan:

I have Sinner by Sierra Simone. 

Nicole:

Excellent. And what are you pairing with your book for a beverage?

Meghan:

So, I had a couple of options. One place in the book, he, the main character gentleman, Sean, makes a uh gin and tonic for the leading lady Zenny.  Which, gin and tonic is my go-to drink. That is my favorite drink. So, I thought early on that that's what I was going to be doing. 

However, it is effing cold in Wisconsin right now. It is so cold. It's it feels like negative 30. I can barely be outside with the dogs for more than 10 seconds. So, I decided instead to go with mulled wine because it is a warm beverage. And my leading lady is a novice, meaning she is trying to become a nun in the Catholic Church. So, I figured, you know, red wine. And I could pretend that this was a nice Catholic beverage instead of doing a gin and tonic. So, I've got some mulled wine here. I felt like that was still thematic.

Nicole:

All right. 

Meghan:

And you some choices as well. 

Nicole:

I messaged you earlier that I couldn't decide which route I want to head down because in my book, they drink tequila at the start of the book, and it's kind of a big deal that they're drinking the tequila. And I was like, I love tequila. And we're planning on having tacos for dinner tonight. So, I was like, oh, some margaritas.

Meghan:

I'm right there. 

Nicole:

And then I'm like, no, Nic, you're missing a really key opportunity. 

So, I saw several months ago that on our Pinterest for Romance on the Rocks podcast, you pinned a cocktail called Dolly Parton's Dirt Road Martini. 

Meghan:

Oh man, you made it? 

Nicole:

I did. 

Meghan:

Yay! 

Nicole:

I don't know how it's gonna taste. We'll find out here in a hot second. But it consists of vodka, unsweetened tea, giardiniera, brine, and some cocktail olives. 

Meghan:

Oh wow. 

Nicole:

Yeah.

So, I'm about to taste test it and see how this is. 

Meghan:

I will say my mauled wine is delicious. And you know I don't normally do uber sweet drinks, but this is pretty good. 

Nicole:

Oh, that's different. That's real different. Okay. 

Meghan:

Drinkable different, or my grandmother says different, meaning she hates it?

Nicole:

 Let me try one more sip. Uh maybe it'll grow on me. 

Meghan:

Okay, well, good luck. It was the giardiniera that kind of threw me off. I love giardiniera. I just can't imagine putting that in a beverage.

Nicole:

You know what? And I sipped it right out of the jar because I do that sometimes, you know, for electrolytes and whatnot. And so, I did. I was like, okay, okay. I think what's ruining it for me is the tea up in there.

Meghan:

Sure. That seems very um what's the word I'm looking for? Competing flavors. 

Nicole:

Yeah.

Meghan:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Maybe I chose the wrong type of tea. It just said tea. Uh, and so I used Bob's whatever Bob has his Louisiana tea. 

Meghan:

I wonder if like a green tea might be more of what you're going to. 

Nicole:

I'm thinking a green tea or more like an herbal chamomile or something. I don't know. Uh maybe.  I don't know. I don't know. Let me let me take another sip. Okay. Uh I'll drink it because I made a shit ton of it.

Meghan:

Oh boy.

Nicole:

Um, and I don't want to waste the really good vodka that I used, but uh yeah.

Meghan:

Okay. Anyway, yeah. I had to drink a couple sips so you could actually see that my drink is

in a big glass mug that actually says church key on it. It is a nice Wisconsin-style mug, but I figured, again, I'm going with wine and church. And I'm sure we'll have at least one visual of what's going on behind me, but I did hang up my Virgin Mary and the baby Jesus behind me. So, I'm feeling very in the spirit for this particular book.

Nicole:

I have a fun little story, real quick, for our podcast listeners. Once upon a time when I lived in Wisconsin, and someone on this podcast would regularly leave gifts for me at my house. And it's a little game we play with each other where we leave things at each other's house to see number one, how long it takes for the other person to notice we left a gift. And number two, because we really love each other and we're so thoughtful with each other. Well, one day I exited the front of my house, and there's the Virgin Mary, big and large and in charge in the middle of my yard. And I didn't put her there. And then there was also a baby doll in front of her. And I was like, God damn it, Meghan.

Meghan:

First off, but we also need to clarify with the listening audience that I lived hours away from you. So, for this to appear in your front yard and for you to blame me, how rude. 

Nicole:

But accurate. 

Meghan:

It was indeed accurate. I did leave that in your front yard. But the best part was you reaching out to me and basically just it was one text that said, “God damn it, Meghan”. And my response was just to send you a picture of me posed with the doll that I had laid out as the baby Jesus. 

Nicole:

Yeah. And she was like kind of a weird ceramic doll with crossed eyes. 

Meghan:

And um, I believe the picture was just of me making a face, like, I don't know…what? Yeah. So, I had prepared for you to accuse me. And uh, you were spot on.

Nicole:

You’re like, “I'm not even in town.”

Meghan:

Which at the time was true.

I had already escaped your town like an hour previous. 

Nicole:

So well, for me, the funniest part was I went to go grab the Virgin Mary out of the front yard because I was like, no, no, no, no, no, we're not doing this. And I went to grab her right by the halo, and then I couldn't move her because she was full of sand. 

Meghan:

Oh, yeah, she has she was heavy. 

Nicole:

She was heavy.  Uh, but now she lives up in Rhinelander, Wisconsin, with my cousin Chris on his land. And apparently, she's quite the focal point when he has his summer camping concerts out on his land up there. 

Meghan:

Well, good. She's living a good life. 

Nicole:

She she's living a good life, just not in my front yard.

Meghan:

Yeah.

Well, unfortunately.

Nicole:

Yeah. Uh, well, you know, always an adventure with you, Meghan. 

Meghan:

You're welcome. 

Nicole:

But anyway, with the Dolly Part and Drink, circling back, uh, I will explain with my book notes why I went down this route.

Meghan:

Very good. Who's first today? 

Nicole:

I believe it is me. Well, bring it on, lady. All right. First, I'm gonna show you the book cover. It's pretty cute. She's got a cute little yellow dress on. And then when I got this, I got the author, Sloane Spencer, to sign it. I also was blessed to get swag when I purchased the book from her in Milwaukee this summer or late, late summer, early fall. Fun little stuff. 

Uh, this is the main character's cat, Razzle Dazzle. And I think that's just the cutest name for a cat. So, it was fun getting to meet her and chat with her, and she actually did recommend that this would probably be the best book choice for me out of all of her writings. And I have to say that for the most part, yes, 100%. So, let's dive right in with the show notes for my book. The book title is Every Version of You, and it's part of the Rugby Lovers series by Sloane Spencer, published in 2024. It is quite contemporary. It is in the genres of sports romance, rugby romance, contemporary romance, romantic comedy, friends to lovers, and surprise pregnancy. 

Meghan:

Your favorite.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Written in first person point of view with alternating perspectives between Angie and Raphael, who are the main characters. Angie and I apologize to Sloane Spencer right now. I don't know if it's “Johansson” or “Yohansson.” I don't know. Either way. Angie J. She's the oldest of five siblings and has basically acted as a mom for her brothers and sister since a young age when her own mom died in a car accident. She's also a children's therapist. Makes sense for how she grew up and where her life had been. Then there is Rafael Jimenez, a CFO, and hobbyist rugby player, and Angie's bestie since childhood. She took him under her wing when he was new to their school, and they've been friends ever since. And he's recently moved back to the area for his job. One more sip. 

Meghan:

Get yourself lubricated, girl.

Nicole:

Something. Wah.  Augh.  Yuck.

Okay.

Meghan:

Does it taste a little like WD 40 or something? Because I feel like you know, if you're getting yourself lubricated.

Nicole:

It tastes like olive brine and tea, which I don't know I'm loving that. 

All right. The plot line. Raphael and Angie get super drunk with some friends and family one night. Tequila did make their clothes fall off. They don't remember having sex. There's no indication they had sex. You know, they're like, do you notice any wet spots? Do you notice any condoms? They're like, nope, nope. We got our clothes partially still on. Okay. And then Angie gets her period, sort of. So, they're like, yeah, no, we definitely didn't have sex and we're in the clear. In the midst of this, Angie has to find a new place to live because the owners slash friends of the studio she was renting from are relocating for a job and have to sell. And unfortunately, Angie can't afford to buy the whole property from them. So, she's kind of homeless now. So, Raphael, as any good friend would do, is like, hey, I've got an extra guest room at my house. You can stay there until you get your stuff figured out. Okay, great. In the midst of the moving in process, Angie ends up in the ER because things are wonky health-wise. And then she finds out, oh, wait, she actually is pregnant. The whole period thing was a false period, which can and does happen. They decide to keep the baby and raise it together, even though they're not gonna get married and follow that traditional route, but they're like, hey, we're best friends, we can be partners in this and we can co-parent. And I'm like, okay, if you guys feel like that's gonna work for you, go for it, you know? 

Meghan:

Sure.  They might not be romantically involved, but they know that they can depend on each other. So, okay.

Nicole:

And she's at an age where she's like, yeah, I would, I would like to have this kid. So hey, power to you. While she's pregnant and they're living together, they decide why not have all the sex during that time and be monogamous in terms of sex. So, they're not gonna pursue outside sexual relationships. They might as well just have sex with each other. And I was like, I guess I can see the logic in that. You know, you already got her knocked up. You don't remember it. Might as well at least enjoy it, you know? 

Mehan:

Yeah, I mean, I guess. 

Nicole:

But also, I think you and I both recognize that that can certainly complicate things, can't it, Meghan? So, they're going along nicely, they're both developing stronger feelings for each other, and Angie is beginning to feel like Raphael is getting a lot of the benefits from a serious monogamous relationship without actually having to make the commitment. And she does want commitment in her life, and she does want a long-term relationship at this point in her life. And she's like, basically, he's getting all the perks of a wife, like a live-in wife and soon-to-be mom, but he's not having to actually walk the walk. Raphael does have some serious commitment issues thanks to his super shitty dad, who hates women and has told him his entire life never to be trapped by a woman. And of course, Raphael is always trying to make his dad happy and earn his dad's affection by doing what his dad wants him to do, whether or not it aligns with what he wants in life. He's just very much trying to please his dad. And I was at a certain point like, fuck your dad, he's an asshat. So, I'm gonna leave it there. I don't want to spoil the rest of it, but I'm gonna get into things that I loved and appreciated. 

First off, Meghan, in the beginning of this book, there is a lovely Spotify playlist. And it has a QR code, so you can go ahead and even look up with the QR code the playlist. And then if you get to certain pages, at the bottom of the page, it even has the song for that page or section. And I was like, that is so fun, that is so cute. 

Uh, the part where they're drinking tequila, the song choice was Despacito, which I freaking love. 

Meghan:

Yeah. That's a great one. 

Nicole:

Over and over in my kitchen and danced to it while I'm baking. So, I was feeling the vibe. I was like, yeah, bring on this playlist. I'm here for it. Uh she also has a whole section at the beginning of the book of American rugby terminology to guide you as she's talking through games and events that uh Raphael is participating in, which I appreciated because I'll be honest, I don't know shit about rugby. 

Meghan:

Did you did you feel like you learned anything with that? 

Nicole:

Yes, but did I retain that information? Absolutely not. But while I was reading the book, I was like, oh, okay, yeah, that makes sense. And I appreciated having that terminology there because I, again, rugby, you know. Then, uh, I mentioned it before, Angie's cat's name is Razzle Dazzle, which I thought was cute and fun. There are a variety of relationships and sexual orientations displayed between other characters in the book, including polyamory, bisexuality. There's also a transgender character, and I really appreciated all of those elements and the characters because I think it reflects the real world well. Also, in this book, therapy is normalized, including for male characters. That was refreshing. Angie is a real-sized adult woman. She's size 18 to 20. I'm right there with you, girl. Appreciated and loved that. And also, the fact that she was not some virginal, innocent woman who came just by having her nipples touched. While Angie is pregnant, she develops this thing where all water tastes contaminated. And I have never felt more seen. 

Meghan:

That does sound exactly like a Nicole move.

Nicole:

Yep, right there.

I totally had that happen to me when I was pregnant with my daughter, Sidney, and it never went away. To this day, all water tastes contaminated to me. It's such a struggle to drink water without feeling like, ugh, no, that's contaminated. Uh, and I always say to Bob, I'm like, can't you taste that in the water? And he just looks at me like I'm bat-shit crazy. And I'm like, okay, so it's not just me, it happens to other people. So, this was very relatable to me. And I thank you, Sloan Spencer. I feel seen. 

Another thing I enjoyed for the most part. Angie and Raphael engage in all manner of kinky, fun, fantasy, intimate moments as two healthy, consenting adults. I recently learned about scenes uh from a subscription called Aria with the hubby that we tried out last quarter. And Angie and Raphael totally create some scenes together. So that was fun. Some of it was not my jam. Uh, some of it was straight up hilarious, and some of it was like, okay, I'm intrigued. Uh a few examples. They chase each other in the woods. I was like, “Oh, they have funny safe words”, and this is where Dolly Parton comes in. 

Meghan:

Okay. 

Nicole:

Angie's safe word is Dolly Parton, and Raphael's safe word is Kenny Rogers.

Meghan:

Oh my god, that's fantastic. Are they Islands in a stream? Was that one of the scenes? Please tell me. 

Nicole:

I was giggling so hard, and I was like, Bob, you're not gonna believe what their safe words are. 

Meghan:

Just real quick. So, the song Islands in a stream, when my husband was young, he thought they were saying Island Industries. And so that was that's always been the song to him is Island Industries. I'm like, yeah, that's a great business name. 

Nicole:

I love it.

And I have to say, uh, the one scene that not only I was challenged by, but also Raphael was that Angie wanted to do. Raphael found a nice, playful, and safe way to make it happen, and that he was comfortable with because he knew it was a fantasy of hers, but he was like, nah, nah. But then he was like, okay, let me let me rethink this, let me come back at this from a different approach, and he made it happen for her. 

Meghan:

Very nice. 

Nicole:

Yeah. So, I was like, well, that that that worked out well. And then finally, despite having commitment issues, Raphael is a very considerate partner. He leaves Angie snacks on her nightstand, and even when they have an argument and she goes to stay at another friend's house, he makes sure she has all her pillows and her toiletries and clothes by dropping them off for her because he's like, no, girl needs her pillows in her pregnant state. We cannot be fucking around without the pillows. I thought that was nice. I also considered this book a learning opportunity. 

Meghan:

In what way? 

Nicole:

Well, I'll tell you what, Meghan, I am learning so much this year, season three, year 2026, from romance novels and smut, but it's still only January. I don't know what this year has in store. But I feel like I've hit a whole new level and I am learning even more than last year from podcast reading. And outside of podcast reading, I had to look up a lot of things while reading this book, including primal domination, consensual non-consent, sleep creep, and switching. Those were new to me. I think I basically understood the gist, but I didn't know the terms.

Meghan:

Yeah, I'm gonna tell you out of the four, I'm like, okay, I have a pretty good idea about two of them. And then the other two, I would just be taking wild stabs in the dark.

Nicole:

So, there's a lot of stuff in this world. There was another one that she mentioned about financial something, and I can't remember what the exact term was, and I didn't unfortunately tag it, although I tagged the shit out of my buck for notes, but it wasn't what I thought it was. So, I'm glad that I was Googling and researching to understand the terms properly because it made a difference once I understood what it was. 

Um, as far as challenges in this book, I didn't really have any challenges. The pregnancy romance is not really my jam. And you know this about me, Meghan. Uh, because I personally did not love being pregnant. And it's not something I ever wanted to repeat after being pregnant with my daughter Sidney. But I liked the characters in this book and the overall storyline. And there was only the one weird scene that Angie wanted to do where I was like, what the fuck? And then Raphael was freaked out by it too. And so, I was like, okay, it is weird. It's not just me. And I felt like by having Raphael kind of bulk at it, it was an acknowledgement that, yeah, it is kind of a weird kink that she wants to do. And so, I was like, okay, I'm not just reading random smut where it's like, yeah, all the things. You know what I mean? I don't know why, but it made me feel more comfortable with it. And the way he turned it around, I was like, okay, okay.

Meghan:

I do think though, it may not even be somebody's actual kink, but in some of those situations, people want to try something because maybe they don't know if it will be something they want to do again. So, it may just be a one-off, one and done. And yeah, it might come across as strange initially.

Nicole:

What it boiled down to in this book with the scenes, if you will, is Angie had been reading a lot of uh trashy romance novels, as we all do. And so, she wanted to create scenes from the trashy romance novels. And the one that I had challenges with, and as did Raphael, was. A Mafia thing. And I have to tell you, I haven't read any straight up mafia type stuff. I've read Mafia Adjacent this year so far, where it's like a secret, secret society type of thing, but not straight up mafia. She basically wanted to act out scenes from various romance novels. And I totally get that. I'm not opposed to that at all. May have done that myself with my husband. But I just appreciated again that Raphael turned it around. He was uncomfortable with something. And I don't want anybody to do anything that they're uncomfortable with. I don't care if you're male, female, them, whatever. You should not have to feel pressure to do something you're not comfortable with. 

But if we were still doing romantic reminders, I would say that the romantic reminder here would be that compromise doesn't have to mean sacrificing your values and boundaries with some creative workarounds. You can often find ways to compromise that might even end up being fun. So, I appreciated that. Final thoughts on this book, and I'll leave that there. If you like a sports romance that's not heavy on the sports, more light on the sports, but still engaging the sports, and you like a rom-com that's a little on the spicier kinky side, and you like a rom-com in a fun read. Did everybody say rom-com? 

Meghan:

Yes, probably like four times. 

Nicole:

Okay, the martini is kicking it. It's a it's a fun read. Did I mention it's a rom com? Um we are doing scents this year. His scent, I was totally feeling this vibe. His cologne is a strong bergamot and lemon, but his aftershave balm is a light chamomile. And sometimes there's cedar wood kind of mingling with the bergamot and lemon. Let me tell you, I'm a girl who's obsessed with bergamot and citrus scents. And so, I was feeling all these vibes. I was like, yes, bring on the citrus woodsy chamomile goodness. I'm here for it. So same, same.

That that's what I got for you, Meghan. 

Meghan:

Well, nice. It sounds like you had a nice read. And um, I will go into mine telling you that I had a nice read as well. I was a little bit apprehensive about this book just based on the content. It seemed from the back of the book like this was going to be difficult for me to get through, but I

actually, really appreciated it. So, I had Sinner by Sierra Simone. 

This seems to be the second in a series that she's got going on here. Uh it was a good standalone. This one was originally published in 2018. And I'll just get into it. 

Sean Bell is our male hero. He's rich, he's brash, career-driven. He's a real estate mogul, I guess I would call him, who initially comes across way more shallow than he actually is under that crisp, austere surface. We find out fairly early on that he has been spending a lot of time caretaking for his mother, who has been fighting cancer for the last few years. He's been lucky enough that his boss has allowed him to work out of the office in order to take care of his mom, take her to her chemo appointments, stay with her during emergency hospitalizations and the like. However, during one of these intensive hospital visits, his boss calls him back into the office with a workplace emergency. There is a publicity nightmare on the horizon. A huge deal that Sean was about to close has just dredged up some really bad PR. Unbeknownst to Sean, because the seller of this property literally did not tell him about it. So, he had no idea. But the building that is part of this deal houses a nonprofit organization run by a local group of Catholic sisters. The nonprofit helps to house, clothe, feed the homeless. And if Sean closes this real estate deal, it could leave the charity out on its ass, which of course does not look good for the company, right? 

So, because of this impending PR disaster, the boss sends Sean to meet with the nuns. So now, a little more background on Sean. He is a lapsed Catholic. He grew up in the fold. One of his brothers was even briefly a priest, but previous religious trauma has removed him from the flock. Sean grew up with two brothers and one sister, and his younger sister, Lizzie, had spent her teenage years wanting to go into service for the Catholic Church as a nun. Lizzie was lost to self-deletion after her dedication to the religion. After her death, the family found out that she had actually been groomed and abused by a smarmy church leader. Sean has never been able to separate the church from Lizzie's death, which is very valid, right? 

Sean now has to make it right with the nuns who were inadvertently caught up in this enormous real estate deal, right? So, he's a lapsed Catholic, having to rush back into this Catholic church aura in order to fix his career choices with this big real estate deal. So, Sean shows up with a nonprofit expecting to meet a nun named Mary. But of course, they're all named Mary. Who he actually comes face to face with is Zenobia Iverson, the younger sister of his best friend Elijah. He hasn't seen Zenobia, “Zenny”, since Lizzie's funeral. So, it takes him a beat to realize who she is, and he is horrified to realize she is also the young woman he hit on at a party just a couple days ago. 

Why was she at the party? Well, she's not quite a nun yet. She's been a novice in training and moving toward her final vows. And apparently, her Reverend Mother has been encouraging her to go out in the world and tempt some doubt. The Reverend Mother thinks that Zenny has been too unshakable in her convictions. Basically, she hasn't seen enough of the world to really understand what she's giving up to take these vows. So yeah, um, Sean met Zenny at a party and did not realize who she was. What he does know is that when they were at the party, they seem to be building a steamy rapport. And now Sean is faced with this pious and virginal Zenny in a very Catholic setting. 

So, during this initial meeting, Sean realizes he needs to find a new and better location for the charity that will not only help impress Zenny, but it will help the local community make for a better public image for his company. In addition to making a better path for both his company and the nonprofit, he's now drawn further into Zenny's orbit by this like quote unquote worldly test she's trying to get through while figuring out her spiritual path. So, like, what does that mean? 

The two of them have kind of like a little handshake agreement that he will play her temporary boyfriend, giving her a tempting physical experience that will allow her to really decide her spiritual path. So, what follows is several weeks of them building a physical, emotional, and spiritual relationship while both stumbling their way toward whatever the future may hold. 

I'm telling you, this book was emotionally complex and very well written. So, there will be no spoilers because I actually really enjoyed this book, which was shocking. 

Nicole:

Which shocks me. Shocks me shocks my core, Meghan. This is not your, this is not your book. 

Meghan:

Uh you think that, however, what I will say is I like a complex theme. I need more than the romance, and we've kind of discovered that. I need something, I like a mystery to solve. I like that there is a complex world because we live in a complex world. And for those of you who don't know, I freaking love theology. I really do. I just find it fascinating as part of the human experience. So, for me, this was a really interesting book because it really parsed apart people's emotional connections to a spiritual world and interpersonal relationships. It was very well done. So, was it more open door than I would have preferred sexually? 

Nicole:

I was gonna say, you're not an open-door girly. 

Meghan:

I'm not, it's not really my thing. However, it was handled so well with all this other complex background that I really appreciated this book.

Nicole:

For all our podcast listeners, that's a huge thing coming from Meghan. That's huge. 

Meghan:

Yeah, that's huge.

I don't get to often say that I think a book was really well written. This was very well written. I look forward to reading more in the series. 

Nicole:

Oh my God, because that's like book two or three in the series. 

Meghan:

And I will go backward and I will go forward. 

Nicole:

Oh my God, Meghan, you're shocking me to my core. 

Meghan:

I'm just telling you, I shocked myself because I did not expect to love this book based on the back. Like I the synopsis didn't really grab me. The book itself did. So, thank you, Sierra Simone. This was really beautifully written and I enjoyed it. 

The one thing that I had a problem with goes back to that whole like, “this person is so young.” I really, really freaking hated that. I don't mind an age gap romance as long as the people are on the same level and they're treating each other with respect. These two were on the same level. They treated each other with respect. However, Sean kept moving backwards into like, “oh, but she's so young.” And, “I babysat her when she was little.” I'm like, you're the one making it weird. Dude, just stop. Let it go. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

You gotta let it go. You're the one making it weird. She's an adult woman, she's making her adult choices. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

You know, the two of you are making a path together. Just fucking stop. So, that was my one thing that I wish would not have been hammered on so hard in this book. 

Okay. Um, I thought this was nice. Sean says at one point in time, “I want to impress her. All that trust and affection she has to me that I don't deserve. I want to start deserving it.” And I thought that was very, very insightful because you recognize that there's no reason for her to really trust you as much as she is, but you want that trust to be built on something. So, that's the other thing, me being a person who loves the theology, is I was drawing a lot of these, like, you know, this is not a house built on sand. This is a house built on stone. I was pulling in like all of my young Bible studies types of things. And I'm like, he's looking for his house built on stone. He doesn't want her to be building this on sand, right? I thought that was lovely. 

There was a funny thing where she was asking him, much like your book, where they were talking about different fantasies and role-playing and different things they could try, right? And her little tempting months that she was doing here. And she was like, well, how experienced are you? And his response was, “there are a few categories of porn hub I haven't dabbled in.” I was like, oh, oh boy, buddy.

Nicole:

We may not want to dabble into those categories, but okay.

Meghan:

Yeah. Okay, but also real world. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

Yeah. Speaking of real world, this really spoke to me as well. You and I, as people who have way too much to do. There's so many things like on our plate that like we spend a lot of time getting things done. And so, then we, yeah, we then ignore other bodily needs. Like, I cannot tell you the number of times I've been grocery shopping and I've had to pee for an hour. Guys, just stop and go to the bathroom. Why am I like, no, I got 15 more minutes in me before I explode? Like, girl. So dumb, right? So, this really stuck out to me. Sean knows that Zenny is, she's not only going through this novice training to take her final vow, she's also in college at the same time. She wants to be a midwife. She wants to help people have better health outcomes with their pregnancies. Yeah, great. She's going to school for nursing. I love it. And he was incredibly supportive this whole time. And one of the things was she had come home after like a long day of school and study and whatnot. And he was like, When's the last time you ate? And she just kind of looked at him. And I'm like, oh, okay, that sounds a lot like what you and I would do. Oh, I don't know, 12 hours ago. Who knows? I had coffee. That's all I need. 

Nicole:

Right, right. I'm good. 

Meghan:

And so, he asked her when she had eaten last. And she's kind of looked at him. And his response was, “I know that it's much, much easier to justify losing a night's worth of sleep for the cause than it is to justify taking 10 minutes to make a sandwich.” And I'm like, yeah, you will spend your whole day working for a thing that you were passionate about, but stopping to take 10 minutes to feed your body properly, that seems like a waste of time. I'm like, whoa, that that spoke to me, right? It's also just not on my brain sometimes. 

Nicole:

Right. 

Meghan:

Which I thought then I really appreciated the fact that he stopped and said, we're not moving forward with whatever the rest of the night is until I know, have you eaten? Have you fueled properly? Are you taking care of yourself today? So, for the partner to look at his, you know, loved one and go, I know you well enough to know that you have given your entire day to what you're passionate about. Have you fed yourself? I thought that was very, very sweet. 

Nicole:

Yes. Valid. That's good partner care right there. 

Meghan:

Exactly. Here's the thing: Sean’s really struggling with his relationship to the Catholic Church and his anger that really surrounded his religious upbringing and how he felt about that today. He recognized at one point in time in the book that he was railing against religion and suddenly was like, Wait, “can you hate a thing you don't believe in?” That was that was a really interesting moment for him to suddenly realize like he's got all this anger that he's throwing at something that he tells people he doesn't even believe in. So, this was a great book because it had a lot of thought-provoking moments. 

There was, there was a lot of um recognizing just simple things, black hair care being different for a young black woman than it would be for somebody like me. And looking at a cis-gendered male-dominated society, it just really looked at a lot of different concepts. We find out that one of the other characters in the book is most likely bisexual, and that comes out in a scene where you're not necessarily expecting it. And so, there were a lot of really good societal uh commentaries throughout this book, which I appreciated because it didn't necessarily hit you in a way that felt forced. It just felt like real life, much like you saying in your book, it felt more real.

Nicole:

I was just about to say this completely is relevant to my book as well, because it's real-world people, relationships, situations. And I appreciate that as well.

Meghan:

And even if I'm not an open-door person, the amount of care and thought that went into all the different encounters, that is really what I am looking for in any sort of book. It's not even necessarily the encounter itself or whether or not I can see myself being in that kind of encounter. It's more, do these two people appreciate each other enough that they are making this an experience for the two of them in a positive way? And you don't always see that it can be very glossed over, or like you and I say, oh, this virgin just had sex and now she's orgasming all over the place. And you're like, no. And this book wasn't like that, right? It just real-world stuff. 

And then on the fun parts of it, Sean and his mom very early on were reading romance novels together. You guys. 

Nicole:

Yes. 

Meghan:

Yes. He found escapism through romance novels after his little sister's death. And when his mom found he was reading them, the two of them just started swapping novels. And so now that she's in the hospital and going through all this treatment for cancer, he's reading them out loud to her. 

Nicole:

Yes. The nurses would come and they he'd have a chapter a day. And it just, it was really, really sweet. And they would watch HGTV together and make fun of the tiny house people. And I'm like, I can get on board with this. 

Nicole:

This is great. A hundred square feet is not gonna. 

Meghan:

I love the concept of a tiny house personally, but I also understand making fun of the tiny house people. So, it was just in general, I liked Sean more than I thought I would. I loved how complex this book was from the thought process. And I do look forward to reading more of these, even though it initially did not seem like something I was going to love. So, kudos to Sierra Simone. Freaking loved it. No notes.

Nicole:

And she's got lots of great reviews for her Audible version, her audiobook version of the book as well, whether it's from Libre or from Audible. And just on Goodreads in general, people have commented on the excellence of the writing as well. So yeah, surprising and exciting.

Meghan:

Very happy that I threw this into our pick a number because to me, it could have been one that I just re-donated based on reading the back and been like, I don't know. No, really, really pleased. So yeah, happy. 

Um, I know we're not doing romantic reminders, technically. But how well I did one. So, give me a so I just want to say my comment earlier about he wanted to earn that feeling of deserving. She was giving him all of that. So, I do think there are a lot of times where you recognize that your partner is giving you some sort of trust that you're like, oh God, I don't even know how to hold that. So just figuring out what it is that makes you feel worthy to hold that trust from your partner. And that might not sound romantic, but I do think it's really important to recognize that our partner sees us in a totally different way than we see ourselves, right? And sometimes we're their hero in a space that we didn't know we were. So, feeling like we can step up into that image that our partner has of us, I think that's brilliant. 

Nicole:

Yeah. Did you have any sense? 

Meghan:

Yeah. Um, I'm sure there was something about his scent.  I don't remember what it is. Or her scent. No, no, I've got one for her. He said that it was something rose-like and delicate.

Nicole:

Ah, yes. Mm-hmm.

Meghan:

Also, can I rewind real quick? And when she first saw his penis, she described it as bumpy. And he responded with, I think the word you're looking for is big. 

I thought that was an adorable little back and forth. 

Nicole:

Whatever you say, dude. 

Meghan:

Right. I'm like, that is real talk, right? Where she's like, oh, it's so bumpy. And I was like, it's like, I love that so much.

Nicole:

Valid. And he was bumpy.

Booby prize. I have to know who gets it this week. I was fairly early in comparison to some of my other novels. Nothing like page one. I am never giving that up. 

Meghan:

For anybody who might not have heard last episode, I had the booby prize on page one. 

This one does not hit as early as my record, which is now page one and incredible. 

Nicole:

Dang, girl. 

Meghan:

I'm on page 19. 

Nicole:

Oh, I got you beat this episode. 

Meghan:

Oh, do you? Yeah, I thought page 19 was pretty good though. So, mine is, “those small high tits, braless and palm-sized under her dress.”

Nicole:

Okay. Mm-hmm. Mine is page 13.

Meghan:

Nice. 

Nicole:

“Like a reflex, I left my shirt and pressed my tiny breasts against Cora's enormous ones.” And for context, they're doing like a drunken chest bump thingy.

Meghan:

Uh, well, I'm not mad at it. Uh that's a great one.

Nicole:

I wasn't mad at it either. Also, Meghan, I have to confess, what is our usual problem? Our usual breasts. 

Meghan:

The problem is not marking where the boobies are. 

Nicole:

Guess who had to start rereading to find the breasts? This afternoon, prior to record, and was like, thank God it was page 13, because that could have sucked.

Meghan:

I finished this book weeks ago because it was such a good read. And I was doing my show notes yesterday, and I'm like, oh my God, if I have to try and figure out where the boobies were. No, thank you, Meghan, several weeks ago for highlighting it. Thank you so much. I appreciate you, two weeks ago, Meghan. You're a champion. Because I was also like, oh no.

Nicole:

Yeah. Yeah. One and a half week ago, me was like, oh, thank God, she marked it.

Meghan:

Yeah. I did pink and orange highlighters for this, and it was pink highlighter to the rescue. 

Nicole:

Oh, I showed you all the little tabbies I had on mine. 

Meghan:

I somehow have something also marked on page 102. Should I read the quote? I don't know why I marked this. Okay, let's see why we marked this. “To be fully human is to be fully sexual. And while that doesn't mean having sex or even sexual desire, it does mean being fully in your body. It means recognizing that there's nothing less holy about your body than there is about your soul. That as long as your body is treated with consent and respect and affection, that you treat the bodies of others in the same way. There's nothing inherently sinful about your flesh.”

Nicole:

I low key love that. 

Meghan:

Isn't that beautiful? I love it. This book had the nicest mashup for me. This is this is how my brain works, you guys. This weird freaking mashup of the religion and sex. Bring it.

Nicle:

Okay, so we know it's gotten great reviews on good books for the audio version and for the written version. So, I think we can safely say if Meghan thought it was okay.

Meghan:

More than okay. This this goes high up there. Mm-hmm. Where are you at? I'm habanero, I think.

Nicole:

Oh shit. I just closed up my notes. I know it's habanero as well, because there was a there were I think Sloan Spencer says it. It's like kinky cute. And I would say it's kinky cute.

Meghan:

Yeah. This was not as in your face as you would expect. 

Nicole:
 Yeah. 

Meghan:

Given the content. But I would give it a habanero just based on the number of positions we're going into. 

Nicole:

Oh, yes. Always a factor. 

Meghan:

Mm-hmm. Or where we're doing it. 

Nicole:

Sure, that's an element as well. 

Nicole:

Yeah.  And did people die? That's always…

Meghan:

Nobody died. Well, no, that's a lie. Somebody died, but not from sex. 

Nicole:

Not during sex. 

Meghan:

Okay. Multiple people. There were two deaths in this book, not from sex.

Nicole:

But not related to the sex, which has been a deciding factor in previous episodes... 

Meghan:

Correct.  Correct.

Nicole:

…where we rank did not count in this particular book.  Okay, so what do you have coming up on the next episode? 

Meghan:

I'm going to be reading Odd Girl Out. And Anne Bannon is one of the original like mothers of lesbian pulp fiction. So, I'm very excited about this one. “This book features the best of Anne Bannon's lesbian pulp novels. First published from 1957 through 1962, these classic novels follow the exploits of a circle of women friends coming to terms with their sexuality. Odd Girl Out, the first in the series, introduces two of the characters, Laura and Beth, who meet at college. Laura at first thinks that lesbians must be great, strong creatures and slacks. While Beth defies her feelings by fleeing into marriage. The other books are set in Greenwich Village, where Laura meets Bebo Brinker, an impulsive, passionate, and sometimes impossible Midwestern girl who swiftly captures readers' hearts. Called simply amazing reads, engaging, sexy, and unexpectedly illuminating by the village voice, Bannon's novels also provide an important record of lesbian life in the post-World War II era.”

Nicole:

I have Savor It by Tara DeWitt.  “Sage Bird, has learned to love her small world in the coastal town of Spunes, Oregon. That's right, it's Spunes. It's a Spune, but not a “Spewns”. A Spune. With the misfit animals on her hobby farm, her friends and her students to make her smile. But when her ex, town golden boy Ian, suddenly gets engaged, Sage wants a win. Beating him in the Festival of Spunes. I can't even say it without starting to laugh. The town's annual summer competition would be the perfect way to show everyone she's doing just fine. No pity necessary. She just needs a partner. Fisher Lang was a hotshot chef in New York City until the loss of his sister left him grieving and responsible for his teenage niece. After Fisher loses his Michelin star along with his love of cooking, his boss sends him to Spunes for a last chance project to redeem himself. But as his reluctance to get comfortable in a small-town, causes clashes with the locals, and a kiss with his sunny new neighbor, Sage, leads to dating rumors, the pair strike a deal to turn things around. Soon, their alliance blooms into something unexpected. And while they try to savor every moment, summer is racing by all too quickly.”

That concludes this episode of Romance on the Rocks podcast. It's been a treat and adventure, and that is probably one of the worst cocktails I've ever had per se.

Meghan:

When you say treat, I think you're talking about the drinks I had and not the ones you did. 

Nicole:

You know what? I love Dolly Parton, but she did me wrong. 

Meghan:

No, did she actually create? Did she create that cocktail? 

Nicole:

Her and her sister. This is in their cookbook. 

Meghan:

Oh, ladies.

Nicole:

Okay. I gave it my all, Dolly. I gave it my all. 

Meghan:

You did try. I'm proud of you. 

All right, kids. Thank you for joining us today for Romance on the Rocks. Please like, subscribe, and follow. And if you are a fellow bookish biddie like we are, uh, think about giving us a review on Apple iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, all the other weird ones that I need to add into this little like outro that I keep forgetting to do. 

Nicole:

Uh, maybe next time. 

Meghan:

So yeah, wherever you catch your podcasts. And until next time, just know that your support really does mean the world to us. Stay safe and know that you are loved.